Interview with MxDicey

MxDicey is the stage name of Marissa Holder. They are a half-Trinidadian half-Anglo-Indian singer-songwriter born in Essex, just outside of London.

MxDicey is the stage name of Marissa Holder. They are a half-Trinidadian, half-Anglo-Indian singer-songwriter born in Essex, just outside of London. Now based in New Zealand, after graduating from the National Academy of Singing and Dramatic Art in Ōtautahi, they relocated to Tāmaki Makaurau where they pursue creative projects including contributing to the Black Rainbow Collective, recording jingles for commercial radio, fronting the synthpop band No Sunrise (who also moonlight as Backseat Arsonists - more on that later), and formerly being the lead singer of the hard-rock group Living State.

Their fresh and ethereal solo set incorporates powerhouse vocals into a pioneering blend of alternative synthpop, R&B, house, break-beat and soca. They are currently working on their own new solo music.

Later this month, they will perform as part of the Soundscape Sirens, a trio of like-minded artists who have commonalities running through their creative direction but also their own distinct personalities. We caught up with Marissa to find out more.

Kinda Grizzly: Hey! How's it going?

MxDicey: Yeah, OK, I've just been listening to this audiobook called Metro 2033. There's a video game based on it. Have you heard of it? It's really, really good. Basically there was some sort of nuclear war and everyone's been forced underground - and by everyone I mean, just limited to Moscow, where it's set - but you're just following one dude in Russia and you just see things from his perspective and slowly unpick the world around him and what's happened.

KG: Interesting.

MXD: Yeah, it's very, very, very good. It's actually kind of funny because every place he ends up, he encounters some new crazy character that's hilarious.

KG: Where does one play the game if one is interested in it?

MXD: No idea, I've just read the book!

KG: Alright, interesting, I'll look into it. Always love a book reccie. What else is going on?

MXD: I'm planning a trip to India and I've had loads of injections so I'm feeling kind of fucked up but OK! Half my family are from there and I've never been so…

KG: Exciting! Yeah, nice, that'll be good. I suppose we should talk about Soundscape Sirens?! Is there a promoter who's organised this? I was trying to piece together information to work out who's responsible for it, and it feels like you are. Have you organised this?

MXD: Well, it's a joint effort between all of us. All three of us. We don't have promoters or anything over here! We're just a little old New Zealand; there's no one to help the artists!

KG: Yeah, sometimes you just gotta make it work and make stuff happen?! But that's good, you know. That's all, essentially, a promoter is - someone who does that for you, right?

MXD: Yeah, I mean, Vanessa Tottle, she's been doing it for a good two years, and she's super on it. She's emailed loads of music websites and reached out to people who will take photos, and there are a couple of big websites, like Under The Radar and music.nz, that support local artists. So, they have promoted it on their websites because she's got in touch with Kiwi Radio, which is literally just one guy - there are a lot of those, like, one guy, underground operations - running his own little radio station. There are a lot of those around, people just have to do shit themselves here.

KG: I think that's the way to do it. It's surprising how much you can get done with passion and drive. But I guess the thing is that you need people who are willing to put you on, right? Like, I've been thinking a lot about it, at the minute, I don't know if you saw, but I organised a show - oh, of course you will have seen because (fellow Black Rainbow Collective member) Ryan Gecko played. That show with Ryan, I felt really pleased and gratified that I was able to make it happen, but the venue, I know them and they let us put it on for free, and I just thought, how many places like that are you going to have access to? Not many… I really would like to do more shows, but I guess it's finding the way to do it.

MXD: Yeah I mean we paid 250 bucks to rent out the place that we're going to play and usually places like Ding Dong Lounge - where I used to play with my rock band - that was always 350 a night so we're always trying to big ourselves up, we're always doing our own promotion. Usually we break even, I don't think we've ever lost money, which is good, but you know, everyone gets like, $11 each and you pay 20/30 bucks for drinks, so you definitely come away at a loss. Which sucks because you're paying like $5000 to record each song, $2500 to record each music video and it adds up to be so much. And that's not including like, gear…

KG: Yeah, yeah. That's the creative arts, right?!

MXD: Yeah, God. I'm kind of glad that, with MxDicey, it's like, a lot less. I don't have to pay for much, I don't have to talk to anyone or make any videos or anything like that yet. It's just production at the moment. I actually want to go to this guy called Da Fresh, and I've basically just been copying his production tutorials. You know the group Bicep, right?

KG: Yeah…

MXD: Yeah they have that song Glue and also Chroma 008 and I saw them at this festival called Laneway last year and I was like "shit, they're so, so good!" - that's what I want to be. So that weekend, I Googled "how to make a song like Bicep", and I basically just ripped off a song of theirs, and then I kind of flipped it and made it my own. I was listening to a lot of Jamiroquai, so I just chucked in some Jamiroquai keys. And so with Da Fresh, I looked into his prices to either mix and master or just like, train me, and he can listen to what I've done and tell me how to boost everything up. So that's gonna be like over a thousand dollars, so basically the plan is that as soon as I've got that money together and I've got together with him and I've punched everything up, that's when I'll actually start releasing some music. So it's still a while away because I've got my kung-fu to focus on. I've been told to go for black belt grading, and that's a lot of my time. I'm trying to get to 100 push-ups a day - I'm on 45 right now - I need to do HIIT training for 20-30 minutes, upload all my patterns from white to black for my tutors to see, and I've got to go for runs. It's every single day until November.

KG: That. Sounds. Intense.

MXD: Yeah! So I don't know if I'll be doing much more after this gig - this is the big one, and then I'll just be focusing on kung-fu and getting it out of the way so I can finally do something else with my life after November, but until then…

KG: Yeah, you can't take on too much at once. Sometimes you've just gotta park one thing for a bit and focus on something else, and it sounds like you're doing that. Or going to be doing that.

MXD: Yeah, that's gonna be my life.

KG: Another thing you mentioned earlier that I forgot to follow up on was that you're going to India, but haven't you got a wedding to save for?!

MXD: Yeah, but we're aiming for like, three years away, so we're saving $53 a week.

KG: That's a very specific number LOL

MXD: Very specific, but that's what's going to get us there! I sing a lot of jingles for the radio, so whenever I get a good jingle job, that tops me up a bit, and it goes into the wedding account. I'm also doing some acting stuff. I have an agent and take acting classes on a Wednesday night, and through that, have made a lot of good connections. I landed a Carl's Jr advert, which is hilarious!

KG: Send us a link when it's out!

MXD: Well, those are the things that kind of top you up. I'm kind of afraid to get a permanent job because a lot of the creative things I do require flexibility, and I won't have enough leave in a normal job to do everything I do. Like I auditioned for The Lion King the other day, I didn't get it, which was sad, but my friend actually got it, which is great. We're kind of on par, singing-wise, but what can you do? I'm definitely drawn more to the MxDicey side of things at the moment as opposed to rock or anything because I can be genre-fluid and do everything my way. Musical theatre and rock and everything - everyone expects a certain style, and I don't fit anywhere. So with MxDicey I'm, like, intentionally not fitting anywhere - I'm doing something new.

KG: I think that freedom can be really useful. That's where the Black Rainbow Collective idea came from, really. I just want to make stuff happen. So if you're out on your own and you're essentially - well, your own boss is a bit of a weird phrase - but you only report to yourself. You only answer to yourself, and that's the ultimate creative juice, really, isn't it?

MXD: Yeah, it is. It's also a little bit-not demotivating-but you don't have anyone to kind of kick you along. And that's a little bit of a downside that I wasn't expecting. Like, I kind of write stuff on inspiration, and if I don't jump on it and write the song immediately because I haven't had time, I pop it in my little vocal recorder. Because the ideas invariably come at like 3 or 4 am…

KG: Always when you're in bed, right?

MXD: Yeah! Like 3 or 4 am, God, it's awful. And then you've got to get it done the next day whilst it's still in your head. But if you leave it too long, that magic kind of fades and then all you're left with is this haphazard recording from the middle of the night.

KG: I've definitely lost things because I've had inspiration in bed and I've told myself "oh, I'll remember it, it's too good, I'm not gonna forget that, it's great" and in the morning, of course, I'm like "what was that thing?!" And it's just completely gone.

MXD: YES! That's so awful, God! I keep them and I download them to my computer and I name them, and sometimes they do kind of come back and become something. Or sometimes the new thing will be in the same key as another thing, and I can kind of join them together.

KG: Yeah, that's satisfying when that happens.

MXD: But I've stopped doing that, I have to record things when that happens, I can't leave it because I never remember it the next day. Tyler, The Creator did, you know, on the Chromakopia album, he did that big song with the choirs and stuff?

KG: The first song on the album? The beginning one?

MXD: Pretty sure, yeah. I thought of a song really similar to that, and I thought I'm definitely gonna remember that, it's so strong, and it was completely gone.

KG: Was that before or after Tyler, LOL?

MXD: Before!

KG: No way?! He stole your dream idea!

MXD: Arrggh! Yeah he did, I was real pissed.

KG: I know you said you planned on approaching Da Fresh, and I know you told me a while ago that you felt like you were just, you know, just getting into the whole production thing. How do you feel like you are progressing? How are you finding that whole process at the moment? I know you said you feel your own music is a while away, but how are you finding the process of learning the craft?

MXD: I think it's just stagnated a bit. You download Ableton and you're like "wow, look at all these things I can do!" and then you get to a point where everything you're doing sounds quite samey and you've got to the end of - not to the end of new things you can discover - but you definitely need a bit of help to discover what else you can do. For example, I've done the Ableton tutorial on how synths work and what they are, etc. But I need to be shown - "OK, so if you do this, then you get this sound" type of deal. So following his tutorials is great. Suppose I need inspiration - even if it's, like, based on a band I don't even like - I just watch his tutorials and discover all these cool sounds. I actually had this before with my old band, Living State; the guitarist really didn't like the producer we were working with at all. Even though he worked with, like, Mel C from the Spice Girls and flew to LA to produce The Commandments of Bart for The Simpsons, he's a very, very good producer. But our guitarist just hated his style, and it was silly, because he didn't actually listen to anything this guy had produced beforehand. He was just like, "he's famous, he'll be good"! But he just hated it! And I just will not make that mistake. A few producers have reached out and offered to help, but I've listened to their stuff, and it's good, it's definitely good, but it's just not my bag.

KG: Which is fair enough…

MXD: Yes, so I'm just thinking, for the money, going to this guy who I am already emulating anyway - to get him to help me get a deeper understanding of what I'm trying to do would be really good, so yeah, next year is definitely music-focused. I have this amazing guitarist friend called Kim who is absolutely amazing, and we've started to do a lesson swap - like she teaches me guitar and I teach her singing - and I really want to get music theory down too. Because it would be really great to be able to teach music, that would be great, and I think it's a good life goal too.

KG: What about teaching singing? Do you need to have an understanding of the music theory you're talking about to teach singing? Or is it entirely separate in terms of how you would go about it?

MXD: Well, usually you'd accompany the person you're teaching by playing piano, you know? Like you'd read sheet music and be able to play along. You can find backing tracks anywhere, and that's absolutely fine, and just get them to sing along - and I'm pretty sure I could - but if I were to go and teach properly in a private school or whatever - you know, to try to earn a living wage for what I'm doing! - Then I'd need to be able to arrange choir songs, and you'd probably have a pianist, but you'd probably want to have some basic piano skills for scales and that sort of thing.

KG: Right, yeah, fair enough.

MXD: I've got plenty of friends who do it for a living, very successfully. They're just flat out as well, so we're making a plan next year to ramp that up and change my focus to music, music, music, and put kung-fu on the back burner, finally!

KG: Going back to Soundscape Sirens, I was curious about the venue - The Cupid Bar - how/what/why? Why there? How did that come about?

MXD: Talmar - one of the Soundscape Sirens - had gigs there before. It's a nice little intimate venue and maybe a ten-minute drive out of town. Plenty of parking! It's just got a lot of charm to it. It's not your typical bar. It's kind of warm, and it has a really cool vibe. Pretty lamps, great cocktails, nice plush seating - it's just a very nice venue. And we're three ladies doing our own little thing - we had gigs in Ding Dong Lounge before - and that was quite successful, so I guess we kind of fit anywhere, but it was just, I don't know, as we were just planning our own little thing, just the three of us, we knew it would seem nice and intimate. If 10 people show up, it would be fine. If 70 people show up, that would be great! But it's good for whatever audience comes along.

KG: It sounds like a nice place. I love a venue with character. When I think about, like - not that I've been to many - but when I think about clubs or raves and the spaces those things take place in, in my mind they're really anonymous and industrial and quite blank, and I quite like the opposite of that. Like what you're describing - about the decor and stuff - a place with some character goes a long way.

MXD: Oh yeah, absolutely, there's plenty of characters that come in and out, that's for sure! And I guess the hard thing is finding a place with an inbuilt audience. People will definitely show up there and come to see you. So at Ding Dong Lounge, we had the rock crowd. They love rock, so they'd come to see rock music. There's always a DJ downstairs, and they can send you up to see whatever rock band is on that night. Whereas with this stuff, it's quite difficult. We've kind of been looking at communities to jump into. I'm part of the Queer community so we did a show at the Charlotte Museum which is the lesbian museum on K Road which is very much like the "Rainbow Road" - there's literally a giant rainbow on the road - so that audience turned up for that, as it was for FRESH which is like a Queer only night, so that was cool. But yeah, this will be the first ever curated show that I'm not opening for someone - this is equal headlining. So I guess we'll see how many people turn up! Ticket sales are not too bad, I mean, you never really sell many tickets from my experience, people just show up on the night, so I'm hoping more people will! There's always that concern of - "will people know about us?", "will they want to travel?" - because it's a bit out of the city… But I guess time will tell.

KG: What would you say the Auckland scene is like? I imagine a lot of people who read this will be unfamiliar with the New Zealand music scene, so could you maybe elaborate a bit on what it has to offer? Areas/demographics - what does the scene look like outside of Ding Dongs?

MXD: There are a lot of cultures there that I'm not into. The Drum' N Bass scene is apparently huge. Like massive. And I don't know why. I'm not a huge fan myself, but that scene is huge. I'm just not a part of it at all. You've got your true blue Kiwi music - there's a band called Six60 which is like R&B singing with feel-good basslines. Families go and see them all the time, and they sell out every show. We have a big Kiwi festival called Homegrown, and they're always headlining that. So bands like that are popular, and there are a few other bands that emulate that type of style that are getting quite big. So there's that scene - but again, not part of it! The rock scene I know quite a bit about. It is very underground and not recognised. So that's tough because recording and everything - you can't just record it in your garage, you need to go to a proper studio, especially when you've got a very picky drummer who wants to fight over gels or whatever. So, I don't know, this scene, which is - I don't even know what you'd call me - the alt-synth pop scene? - It is quite new. But I think it might be more accessible. Because Vanessa, who I mentioned - she's great - she hosts a show on a Brazilian trip-hop radio station, and she makes her stuff quite accessible, so she can play it. We have Auckland Music In The Park, and they'll have these big park shows put on by the council, and she plays at those quite a bit, and she goes and plays at bars. Her stuff is really nice and low-key, and I guess I could curate my set to be like that - I just need enough material! I guess it depends. It's nice not to be locked in a box where "oh my gosh, we're gonna blow your ears off, everyone's got to wear earplugs if they're going to listen to us" - with my rock band, to something nice and more intimate. Although I have big vocals when I sing, I have to kind of adjust to where I'm playing.

KG: You mentioned the rock scene and being part of that. I know you're not in Living State any more - do you miss not being involved in the rock scene, or are you too focused on your new stuff to think about looking backwards?

MXD: I miss the people. It was super fun to meet the types of characters who are in those types of bands. It takes a particular type of tenacity to stick it out and do it properly and seriously, so through that, you meet a bunch of fun characters. But they're totally not into my music, so they wouldn't come to see my music now. It's very different! My old band were nice enough to come and see the first few MxDicey performances, but it's not their thing, so they're not going to come any more, and that's a bit tough just to lose those regulars. So yeah, I do miss the people. But the actual performing - it's just such an ordeal. You have to arrive so early to set up. Soundcheck takes forever. Lugging all the gear back and forth. Whereas now, I just turn up with my laptop, my little stand, my Focusrite, and I have to do a little bit of tweaking because I haven't balanced my stuff, and it sounds very different in every venue. So I have to go through every single song and make sure it's not too bassy or that my vocals aren't too echoey, but yeah, I'm getting faster and faster at that. But all in all, yeah, it's good just to be - as you said - my own boss! Just get out and manage my time - it's good.

KG: Exactly! So, the Soundscape Sirens - is that a lineup that is going to be a recurring thing? Or is it going to be like, you and whoever else is on board at the time or what? What's the plan with it going forward?

MXD: It would be the three of us. Me, Vanessa and Hannah. We've talked about doing a wee tour if this gig is a success. It would be good even just to get footage - my good friend Andreas Rios is filming it. He's a prolific musician and videographer. Like you said, if you want something done, do it yourself. He films live gigs. Entire live gigs and he kind of gets in people's faces whilst they're on stage and he really creates this kind of cinematic show. He did a video called "The Oner", where he filmed a hundred gigs in one year, and he did it, and it's awesome. It just highlighted some great acts that I'd never even heard of, you know? And they know how to perform on stage and I'm taking tips from them coz damn! They just know how to move, how to engage the crowd, and he really does a great job of capturing that. And he'll give you feedback if you're not good! I have improved quite a bit because he's helped me. He's also helped me produce all my stuff on Ableton, so shout out to him.

KG: He sounds great. You mentioned Vanessa earlier and Talmar, The Third Siren. I wanted to ask about her because I read her music described as "Dark Wave", and that's not a genre that I'm familiar with. I wondered if maybe you could fill me in a little bit with regards to what people might expect from listening to or going to see her live?

MXD: She is really talented. Her stuff is kind of like if Nine Inch Nails made an album in space. I don't know, it's otherworldly and echoey but also really industrial and confrontational as well. She has a great ear for that raw industrial sound, and she has this beautiful operatic, ethereal voice as well. We all kind of sing in that vein, so I guess that's why Vanessa thought of Soundscape Sirens. We all have elements of industrial sounds in all of our music, so I guess we all work together as a cohesive sound. The idea originally was that one person would perform their song, and that would feed into the next person's song, but we just haven't had time to figure out how to do that for this one. But maybe for a future show we'll actually do that.

KG: That sounds like a really interesting idea. I was thinking you might graduate to literally making songs together. Do you think that's another "maybe one day" plan, potentially?

MXD: Maybe! I use Ableton and they don't. And I think we've tried to understand how each other produces, but it seems so different! That was a problem. I couldn't just take their project and slot it into mine or whatever. It's a completely different thing.

KG: Do you know what they use as opposed to Ableton?

MXD: They both use Logic. Everyone uses Logic. I'm the only Ableton! I'm alone out here.

KG: Yeah, people do seem to have quite specific allegiances when it comes to music gear and software. I don't know what that's about, really. I guess you just embrace one and you stick with it?

MXD: I like the Ableton synths. With any Logic synths that I've tried, I just sound quite cheesy; I just couldn't get it to sound good. I tried to use Logic for years. I didn't like the linear view. You'd make a verse and then a chorus, and you'd want to put something in between the two or manipulate it, and I found it really hard to separate them once you've locked things in. But in Ableton, it's in a row - each column is an instrument, and each row is a different part of a song. And you can take a row and move it up or down or put it on the back burner or whatever. It's just really great to make a song from scratch - just to get your ideas down on how the whole song will flow and to keep working on that until you are happy with it, and then you can drag it to the linear view and arrange it that way. It's just way easier to compose.

KG: Yeah, I've never used proper things like that. My recording process is very rudimentary, I use Bandlab and then I let other people do the harder work on things like that, LOL.

MXD: Bandlab, what's that?

KG: Oh! Bandlab is - I'm surprised you've not heard of it, it's quite big, I think, here in the UK anyway, but it's an online DAW with a large focus on an inbuilt social aspect. You can publish your songs and get feedback from other users, and it encourages collaboration. You get notifications like "see who's jumped on your track!" and things like this. It's interesting. I think it's quite basic, based on my understanding of such software, but it's good for what I use it for.

MXD: Yeah, and honestly, if it ends up being a Very Many Horses song, then yeah, you're doing the right thing. That stuff is great.

KG: Thanks. Yeah, that's how a lot of it starts. Wesley will take over, and he uses Logic - another one of those Logic people - but yeah, we use Bandlab for initial sketches or demos, and then we decorate them a bit more. Flesh them out more in Logic.

MXD: Cool. Yeah, no, honestly, I'm such a fan of you guys.

KG: Oh, thanks, that's really kind. I'm glad that you approve. Speaking of tastes in things, I wanted to ask you about where your inspiration comes from. I've talked to you before about what I hear in your music, and I remember mentioning that I could hear a bit of Björk. I can't remember what else I said… You might remember better than I?

MXD: Yeah, that was cool. I've got a lot of respect for her, even though I haven't listened to a lot of her stuff. I know that she's incredible. I guess it's just a mash-up of everything I'm listening to at the time, you know? I'm listening to Pixel Grip at the moment, don't know if you've heard of those guys? They're incredible. They're a Chicago-based Lady Gaga meets Nine Inch Nails. They're very industrial. Very hardcore. They're kind of like domination pop. I don't know how to describe it, but they're awesome. I've been rocking them for a while. Whatever I'm listening to at the time manifests and comes through as a song, like an amalgamation. It's hard to narrow down to one band. There's so much.

KG: I get that. What about if you had to narrow it down to one all-time artistic north star for you? Not necessarily in relation to the MxDicey stuff that's happening now, but in general. Like a top three musical heroes, for example. Artistic heroes…?

MXD: Ooo, that's so hard. I've got a giant Elliott Smith tattoo on my back that took five hours, so probably Elliott Smith.

KG: Solid choice.

MXD: I really love the way he writes his lyrics. He's just got so much anger in his lyrics, and I definitely rode that hard for Living State. He's always directing lines at people, "you did this, you did that, blah blah blah blah", and that's definitely how I wrote for Living State. Because I'm a very friendly, happy-go-lucky person, but you need to release some anger sometimes.

KG: You need an outlet! Everyone needs an outlet!

MXD: Exactly! So Elliott Smith for sure. It's so hard, I just go back to my earliest faves - between Radiohead and A Perfect Circle.

KG: OK, well, that's fine, that's three. You can have that.

MXD: It is three, but what MXDicey is now is so far from that! Like Digitalism and Justice - I love those two. They're always in my Spotify Wrapped Top 5. Magdalena Bay is incredible. I don't know if you know them?

KG: No, I've never heard of that.

MXD: Oh, they are insanely good. I'm in this synthpop band called No Sunrise, as well, as you know! - and Tim introduced me to them. I went round for recording one day and it was just playing on his TV and I was like "who the hell is this?! This chord progression is sick!" and then I got absolutely hooked. They're just so fun and I can't even describe them. They're like progressive dreampop. I know they were in a prog metal band before they became what they are. So their pop stuff turns into like, nightmare-pop sometimes. They're so genre-bending, so intelligent, their chord progressions are insane. She plays the keytar, he plays the saxophone and everything and somehow it works. Magdalena Bay are just so cool.

KG: I love the way that things are so fluid now. I don't know about you, but when I was a kid, it was like "this guy likes rock music, this guy likes rap music, this guy likes pop music", and I felt like the odd one out because I had varied tastes. Now you don't need to slot nicely into any box. I love the freedom that comes with that now.

MXD: Yeah, you have metal people that like Taylor Swift for some reason!

KG: Yeah, yeah. I've got a lot of time for her Folklore album, but apart from that, I don't really know her stuff well.

MXD: I don't really know much about her at all. I just know plenty of die-hard fans. Extreme die-hard. There must be something to her.

KG: Yeah, Swifties are pretty intense.

MXD: Just the stuff she sings about, I can't really connect to, and I think that's quite important to me.

KG: I would definitely recommend Folklore. As I say, I'm not a fan of hers per se. But that album was called a Taylor Swift album, but her collaborators were so heavily involved in the making of it that it should really be called, like, Taylor Swift & Jack Antonoff & Aaron Dessner or whatever. There are other contributors too. Bon Iver is on there as well.

MXD: Oh really?! Cool! I've got so much time for Bon Iver.

KG: Same. I guess it depends on what you like, really, but I would say that Folklore is definitely worth a listen. I would recommend Folklore to any discerning music fan, basically.

MXD: OK. Well, I have been recommended this album by that die-hard Taylor Swift fan, too.

KG: The thing is, it's hard to listen without prejudice. It's hard to park your preconceived feelings at the door, but it is an exceptional record.

MXD: If you say so, then it is. I completely trust your judgement.

KG: It is. I will die on that hill.

MXD: OK! Same with Coldplay, I love Coldplay.

KG: Well, yeah, I completely agree - early Coldplay is amazing. Do you like their new stuff?

MXD: No. Hahaha.

KG: Yeah. Same. See, I haven't listened to them for about four albums. So that takes us a way back. But the first two or three. And that album they made with Brian Eno - Viva La Vida - that is exceptional. I think that was their fourth album, maybe?

MXD: Yeah! That was their last good album. I loved that, it was brilliant.

KG: Brilliant, completely agree. The first two were excellent, and I think the third one was OK. And then they had that Mylo album, and it went downhill.

MXD: A Rush Of Blood To The Head is my favourite.

KG: That's a great record. Their really good stuff is really good and their really shit stuff is really shit, I think, personally. But plenty of people love it so…

MXD: Yeah, I don't like their new stuff. I know they put on a huge show, and I have seen their show. It was after the Viva La Vida album, and so it was alright. I got the flashing thing.

KG: They love a flashing thing.

MXD: It just killed the magic when mine didn't work.

KG: Oh.

MXD: Yeah - "never going to one of these again". But I can see the appeal.

KG: So, just to circle back to soundscape sirens - this is going to be a recurring thing, right? Doing a series of Soundcape Sirens gigs.

MXD: Yeah, well, we hope so.

KG: I think it's a really nice idea. Are you thinking about trying out different venues, or do you think the Cupid Bar is gonna be like, where you do your residency?

MXD: I mean, that's actually an idea! We could pitch that to them. I guess it depends on what else they've got going on, because they've got all sorts there, you know? I've had a private birthday there - the first time I went there - that was a very extravagant, lush, private birthday. That's kind of the way to do it, really. Just kind of think up ideas that work. I think the next idea was to go on that wee tour. Go to Christchurch - down to the South Island - because we can easily take our gear anywhere, really, because we all travel with laptops, so yeah, the sky's the limit, really. I don't know how much the style is going to change. I haven't really found a proper look or aesthetic for MxDicey yet, so it's just seeing how that fits within the mould of Soundscape Sirens. I don't know if I'll completely deviate from what I'm doing now or not. Time will tell, I suppose.

KG: Yeah, you're just feeling your way through at this stage, really aren't you? It's like you're working yourself out. It's self-discovery. As cheesy as that sounds. It is self-discovery.

MXD: It is, and I have to remind myself it's early days, you know? Until I've made, you know, ten songs and produced them to my liking, I don't know who I am, yet.

KG: You mentioned No Sunrise earlier, and I wanted to ask about Backseat Arsonists. Which is, of course, No Sunrise, by another name, right?

MXD: Basically, No Sunrise is me and Tim writing - mostly Tim, but my influence as well. Whereas Backseat Arsonists is straight up Tim and then me jumping on and singing some stuff. He writes all the harmonies and everything.

KG: That's interesting. I didn't make that distinction, so that's good to know. I just thought it was the same band, writing the same way, just in different styles. Different names and different hats for different sounds - but actually, I see the distinction now.

MXD: Yeah, we have written under many different names. So there are other projects that are either me and him writing or him writing and me helping, I don't even know. If it doesn't fit No Sunrise exactly, then it's a different project. So, I think we have about 7 or 8 projects. He's got so many - about 20 or 30 or something. Pyramid Sunset is my fave one. He's prolific. So many different styles of synthpop, and they're all their own sound.

KG: Really?

MXD: Yeah, because he went to production school and when he graduated he did this amazing project called Pyramid Sunset and I still think that's the best shit he's ever done and that was like, God, twenty years ago or something, coz we're both old. He's done a lot.

KG: OK! Well, let's hope his repaired laptop holds up! Was it repaired or replaced?

MXD: I don't even know, I'm gonna go and see him soon to record that stuff for you tonight.

KG: No worries, at this stage we're going to work with what we've got chronologically. We've already got the four remixes that we needed for the next release, so anything else that comes through afterwards will be used on something else. We'll use everything, it's just a matter of how.

MXD: Cool, cool. It's sounding very good. Has he sent you a sneak peek?

KG: No, nothing. I'm entirely in the dark.

MXD: Well, it's worth the wait. He's definitely completely reinterpreted the whole song. Oh my God, I've been meaning to ask you this for ages. Who sings on all the Very Many Horses tracks? Is it you?

KG: It's mostly Wesley. On The Sea and The Algorithm, it's both Wesley and I on I Won't Fall Far From Your Tree, and on Compadre, it's both of us. One, then the other.

MXD: Oh, cool! Your voices sound so similar then because I didn't notice any changes.

KG: Really?! That's mind-blowing to me because I think of Wesley as a singer, and I think of myself as definitely not a singer. So it's interesting that you say that. I think Wes is really good - he's our main singer.

MXD: Well, I think you can swap out. I didn't notice, and I'm a singer, you know? So you must be good.

KG: Alright, I'll take that. Or maybe Wes produced it really well?

MXD: Yes, take it! I'm a big fan of his solo stuff as well. There's this one song in particular that I was playing on repeat, by him. What's his solo project called again?

KG: The name is Vyver - I'm not sure what release you would've been listening to, but the newest thing is Vega - all instrumentals.

MXD: Yes! Phantom Planet is the song. It's really cool.

KG: Yeah, he's really good at what he does. I wish we had found the time to work on our stuff some more, but we both lead very busy lives, so we find it very difficult to carve out the time and opportunities we need to make progress on things. We'll get there eventually.

MXD: Life is long, right?

KG: Yeah, true. There's no rush.

MXD: It's good to look forward to stuff in the future. Next year, I want to start another band. Because I do miss being in a "band" band. I've got my covers band - we just play at weddings and stuff - and that's super fun. Do you know a band called Crumb?

KG: No, I don't think so.

MXD: Oh, they're incredible. They're so, so good. They're kind of a dream… Like, dreamy jazz? I don't know how to describe it. Like psychedelic dream jazz - that's what I would call it.

KG: OK! LOL!

MXD: They're very, very, very good. The lead chick, it's cool - she's Indian! And she plays guitar and she sings in a dreamy way, and it's all in odd timings. It's really, really cool. But basically, it'd be nice to start a band and just kind of channel them a little bit because I don't have the know-how to do it. Hopefully, I'll learn some stuff from my friend Chelsea, who is a literal jazz tutor who will help me discover what it's like to be them. She's very good at being like "oh, they're doing this this and this with their music, you obviously like this because blah blah blah, so you should try this"

KG: I had that recently with Dan from The Lonely Suns - we were talking about some music and he like "the downbeat on the drums in the chorus and then when it goes into the verses the tom is now on the third whatever" and I was just like "I don't understand because I'm not, like, a music scientist, I'm just a normal guy". But he knows what he's talking about.

MXD: I want to be a music scientist! That's the goal. It would be very nice to be a music scientist, but oh my gosh, I can't go back to uni and learn it like everyone else seems to do.

KG: My Mum said that to me - "you should actually learn all the stuff, because then you will actually know all the stuff and it will help you with your stuff" but I was like "oh, I don't want to learn all the stuff".

MXD: I know. After this whole time, to me, it might take away from the magic of it, you know? That's what I've always thought. But now I feel like it won't - I can just do more with what I already know and learn to expand on it as opposed to kind of being restricted.

KG: Yeah, I guess it's something else to add to your list of things to do. To become a "music scientist"!

MXD: I know! But it will be worth it. If there's one thing I should do, it should be that because it will complement the one thing I love the most, right?

KG: Yeah, that's a fair point.

MXD: Eventually. Hopefully next year.

Catch Soundscape Sirens at the Cupid Bar in Auckland on Saturday, 12th July.

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Interview by Kinda Grizzly

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